Bridget Todd (00:00):

Just a heads up. Today's episode contains mentions of suicidal ideation.

Bridget Todd (00:08):

You're listening to Disinformed a mini series from There Are No Girls On The Internet. I'm Bridget Todd.

Bridget Todd (00:17):

Today I wanted to do a quick special episode breaking down Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's interview with Oprah that aired on CBS this past weekend. So, I'm not someone who really follows the Royals very closely, though I was pretty excited at the possibility of getting a black princess. Even though, I know, I know, she was a Duchess, not a princess.

Bridget Todd (00:36):

Now, because I'm not so interested in the Royals, I almost didn't watch the Oprah interview with Meghan Markle and Prince Harry, and I'm really glad I did because Meghan's story fits into what we already know about racist, sexist, disinformation, and online harassment campaigns. And I wanted to talk a little bit about that today. Now, if you haven't watched the interview, I'm going to be talking about it in specifics during this episode.

Bridget Todd (00:57):

When I first watched the interview, so much of it rang true for me. I was watching it while scrolling Twitter and all my black woman friends were being like, "Yes, yes, yes. I know exactly what she's talking about." Even though technically none of us are actual princesses.

Bridget Todd (01:10):

Meghan's story of being a black woman facing racist abuse and harassment online is sadly, pretty universal. It's something a lot of us have already dealt with. You might not be surprised to learn that we have a digital media landscape that traffics and distortions that rely on unfair biases. And we already know that black women face more harassment and abuse online.

Bridget Todd (01:30):

A study from Amnesty International found that black women got 84% more abuse and harassment online than their white counterparts. So that means that Meghan was really going through it. This is what black feminist scholar Moya Bailey has called misogynoir or the toxic combination of racism and sexism that black women can face. And because Meghan is a black woman, her race and gender are uniquely weaponized against her to fuel attacks rooted in stereotypes about her identity.

Bridget Todd (01:58):

Now, this is a good time to say that there's a pretty big difference between the kinds of rude catty gossip that other members of the Royal family are accustomed to getting and the kinds of racist, sexist attacks that Meghan endured. Here's how Meghan put it in her interview.

Meghan Markle (02:10):

If they can compare what the experience that I went through was similar to what has been shared with us. Kate was called Waity Katie, waiting to marry William. While I imagine that was really hard, and I do, I can't picture what that felt like. This is not the same. And if a member of this family will comfortably say, "We've all had to deal with things that are rude." Rude and racist are not the same.

Bridget Todd (02:34):

So what exactly has this racialized abuse campaign against Meghan looked like? Well, it means that she has to deal with floods of inaccurate news items or the storyline is one rooted in unfair stereotypes or distortions that rely on her race and gender to paint Meghan out as being angry or emotional or crazy or untrustworthy. Just look at one of the big stories that Meghan talked about in her Oprah interview. The infamous Meghan Made Kate Cry headline.

Bridget Todd (02:59):

So headline after headline framed Meghan as a bully who made her sister-in-law Kate Middleton cry during a dress fitting for her wedding. But according to the interview with Oprah, it was actually Meghan who cried and Kate actually sent Meghan an apology letter afterward. Now it's easy to see how framing a black woman as driving a white woman to tears is meant to capitalize on a racist trope about black women being angry.

Bridget Todd (03:22):

Importantly, Meghan says that everybody in the Royal family knew the truth of what happened in this situation, but no one actually came forward and corrected the record. They just let this racially charged story fester and grow online and in the media.

Bridget Todd (03:36):

Now, when we're dealing with racialized bias, it can mean there are completely different standards. One for women of color or black women and another for everyone else. This is actually a pretty perasive thing in our culture. And even though it's something that can be subtle and difficult to see, just take a look at how headlines praised Kate Middleton for certain behavior while trashing Meghan for that very same behavior. Kate was praised by the Daily Mail for "Tenderly cradling her baby bump," while the same publication wondered if Meghan putting her hands on her pregnant belly was a show of pride or vanity.

Bridget Todd (04:08):

And it kind of gets to the point where it's ridiculous. The magazine, The Express, called pregnant Kate eating avocado "Good for baby." Meanwhile, that same magazine linked avocado to human rights abuses in a piece of that Meghan enjoying avocado. This pretty clearly establishes that there are two sets of rules, one for white women like Kate and another harsher standard for women of color like Meghan.

Bridget Todd (04:33):

What makes this even harder is the fact that it's not really considered polite to talk about your experiences with racism in public. Even watching the interview, it's clear to me and probably every black person who watched it, that Meghan is only telling a fraction of what she actually went through. She's still being so diplomatic. For instance, she refused to say exactly who in the Royal family expressed concerns about how dark her son, Archie's skin would be.

Bridget Todd (04:58):

It's clear the Royal family wants to act like race wasn't a factor in how she's being treated when it so obviously is. Online harassment campaigns are never race neutral. The media landscape, doesn't just amplify these racist, sexist attacks that Meghan faced. They actually profit off of them. In her interview, Meghan points out the symbiotic relationship between the Royal family and the press. Coverage of the Royals sells papers and in turn helps keep the Royals relevant. But as we know, when coverage traffics on people's racialized hate and biases, everything gets more intense.

Bridget Todd (05:31):

Meghan says, "There's a construct that's at play here. They were so attacking and inciting so much racism, it changed the risk level because it wasn't just catty gossip, it was breaking out a part of people that was racist and how it was charged and that changed the threat. That changed the level of death threats we got. That changed everything."

Bridget Todd (05:48):

Now it's kind of a funny example, but this YouTube prank show pretty much shows that Royal commentators, including the Queen's former press secretary Dickie Arbiter, CNN's Royal commentator Victoria Arbiter and Majesty Magazine editor Ingrid Seward, were all pretty much fine getting paid money to lie about Meghan and Harry on television. The pranksters pretended to be with a production company who asked the Royal commentators to comment on the interview before it was even out yet. And they had no issue lying about their reaction to something that they hadn't even seen. Here's a clip.

Speaker 3 (06:19):

In the interview, to my mind this was an actress giving one of her great performances. From start to finish, Meghan was acting.

Bridget Todd (06:30):

Meghan is a public figure, so naturally people are allowed to talk about her. But there's a pretty big difference between commentary and harassment. Meghan shared at her Oprah interview, that the abuse that she got drove her to suicidal ideation. On Good Morning Britain on Monday, Piers Morgan used his platform to mock her for it saying, "I don't believe anything she says. I wouldn't believe it if she read me a weather report." His comments sparked an investigation from media regulator Ofcom After more than 41,000 people wrote in to complain about his comments and the irresponsible way they depicted mental health challenges. Piers has been using his platform to harshly criticize Meghan for years. And on Tuesday, he actually walked off of his own show because of weatherman Alex Beresford pushed back.

Alex Beresford (07:16):

I understand that you've got a personal relationship with Meghan Markle, or had one, and she cut you off. She's entitled to cut you off if she wants to. Has she said anything about you since she cut you off? I don't think she has, but yet you continue to trash her.

Piers Morgan (07:31):

Okay. I'm done with this.

Alex Beresford (07:32):

No, no, no.

Piers Morgan (07:33):

Sorry.

Bridget Todd (07:34):

Yep. You heard that right. He tells Piers Morgan that Meghan is entitled to cut him off if she wants to. That's because Piers Morgan claims he once had drinks with Meghan and that she ghosted him afterward.

Ryan Tubridy (07:45):

So what happened?

Piers Morgan (07:47):

She ghosted me, Ryan, Meghan Markle ghosted me.

Ryan Tubridy (07:51):

Do you think she just went...

Piers Morgan (07:54):

I really liked her. This is why it hurts.

Bridget Todd (07:56):

So Piers Morgan has spent years using his television and media platform to trash and berate a woman that he feels rebuffed his advances, which is pretty gross. Piers announced today that he's stepping down from Good Morning Britain and on Twitter, human rights attorney, Quasim Rashid, put it pretty aptly.

Bridget Todd (08:16):

"Piers Morgan quit his job after 90 seconds of gentle critique, but can't understand why Meghan Markle and Prince Harry quit the Royal family after several years of racist abuse."

Bridget Todd (08:26):

Now Meghan and Harry have actually done a lot of good work combating social media hate and mis and disinformation online. Here's Meghan talking to The 19th about the way social media has inflamed our discourse and made us all more polarized.

Meghan Markle (08:38):

This economy for attention, right? That is what is monetize able right now when you're looking at the digital space and media. And so if you're just trying to grab someone's attention and keep it, you're going for something salacious versus something true.

Bridget Todd (08:52):

The bottom line is Meghan is someone with lot of status and privilege. She's beautiful. She has money. She has light skin and a supportive husband. And yet none of these things saved her from the outpouring of racist, sexist abuse she faced. Her visibility and her access didn't protect her. And really it never does.

Bridget Todd (09:12):

And this is just what black women go through. We've just normalize that it's okay to hurl abuse at black women online. And there's an entire media ecosystem that will amplify it and profit from it. And if this is how bad things got for Meghan, that it pushed her to the point of dealing with suicidal ideation, imagine how bad it is for black women who don't have her access or privileges, whose names you don't know.

Bridget Todd (09:35):

Meghan was really brave for speaking out about what she went through. And it reminds me so much of another brave woman who didn't keep quiet or do what she was told. In Princess Diana's iconic interview with Martin Bashir in 1995, it almost sounds like she's speaking directly to Meghan.

Princess Diana (09:50):

I think every strong woman in history has had to walk down a similar path. And I think it's the strength that causes the confusion and the fear.

Bridget Todd (10:02):

Did you watch Meghan and Harry's Oprah interview? We want to hear from you. What did you think? What were your thoughts? You can drop us a line at hello@Tangoti.com.

Bridget Todd (10:19):

If you've enjoyed this podcast, please help us grow by subscribing.

Bridget Todd (10:26):

Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you at hello@Tangoti.com.

Bridget Todd (10:32):

Disinformed is brought to you by There Are No Girls On The Internet. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tori Harrison is our supervising producer and engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer.

Bridget Todd (10:45):

I'm your host, Bridget Todd.

Bridget Todd (10:47):

For more great podcasts check out the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.