Bridget Todd (00:03):

You're listening to DisInformed, a miniseries from There Are No Girls On The Internet. I'm Bridget Todd.

Bridget Todd (00:13):

We've talked a lot about disinformation this season, but what happens when lies and distortions actually become law. Well, that's exactly what's happening in Georgia. Trump's big lie that he won the election and it was being stolen from him is being used to fuel a sweeping new law that many advocates say creates barriers to voting that will make it harder for all Georgians to vote. But it doesn't start there.

Donald Trump (00:36):

I just want to find 11,780 votes which is one more than we have because we won the state and flipping the state is a great testament to our country.

Bridget Todd (00:53):

On January 2nd, Trump had a now infamous phone call with Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, where he falsely maintained that he'd won the election in Georgia and pressured Raffensperger to "find more votes" in an attempt to make that fiction a reality.

Bridget Todd (01:10):

In the end, Raffensperger certified the election results because there wasn't a reason not to. After a state-wide audit of the 2020 election results, Raffensperger himself said that Georgia's historic first state-wide audit reaffirmed that the states new secure paper ballot voting system accurately counted and reported the results.

Bridget Todd (01:29):

So according to him, the election was secure, and yet last week, the so-called Election Integrity Act of 2021 was signed into law by Governor Brian Kemp. This law makes massive changes to how and when folks can vote in Georgia. Now, Kemp said this law was necessary to boost confidence and "secure, accessible and fair elections".

Bridget Todd (01:49):

But if his own Secretary of State says the Georgia election results were accurate, then what's really going on? Well, this is an example of what happens when disinformation becomes codified into law. Despite what Trump said in that phone call, there was no voter fraud or election fraud in Georgia. But that didn't stop the Georgia legislature from passing this bill that voting rights advocates say will overwhelmingly create barriers that keep black and brown Georgians from voting, and it was all based on a big lie.

Bridget Todd (02:18):

It's so important that we talk about this law for what it is, and the impact it will have on Georgians, which is something Anoa Changa knows firsthand.

Anoa Changa (02:27):

It was really rooted as self-determination for me.

Bridget Todd (02:30):

In 2017, Georgia was facing a closely watched democratic primary for governor between Stacey Abrams, a black woman who if she had won, would have become the country's first black woman governor, and Stacey Evans, a white Georgia state representative. Both candidates were speaking at Netroots Nation, the largest gathering of progressive political organizers in the country, which was being held in Atlanta.

Bridget Todd (02:51):

Now, something to know about Netroots is that there is always a protest. It's basically expected at this point. And speeches always get interrupted by shouting. It's happened to Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren and Martin O'Malley. It's a thing.

Anoa Changa (03:04):

In 2017 at Netroots, I was a part of group of folks who led a protest to shut down a speech that was being given by Stacey Evans, who was at that time running against Stacey Abrams for governor. And a lot of people thought it was just a bunch of, "Oh, Stacey Abrams' supporters who were shutting down this white woman."

Anoa Changa (03:24):

But at that time, I wasn't even a Stacey fan. I was like, I'll probably vote for her, but it wasn't anything... Like so many folks, what it was, was really about Stacey Evans was trying to be positioned as the more progressive choice and she had a bunch of votes including something along education, which were truly problematic which she was not being held accountable on. And that day at Netroot, she was speaking before Becky Pringle, who was then the vice president of the NEA, the National Education Association.

Anoa Changa (03:57):

So, you're someone who has been pro-charter school, pro-removing money out of education. You voted against the interest of teachers, students, families, unions, and you're speaking ahead of this prominent national black woman that has been advocate for education.

Bridget Todd (04:25):

That's Anoa, alongside a group of black women interrupting Stacey Evans's planned speech. They're chanting, "Trust the black woman." The incident came up in a tense debate between Evans and Abrams, with Evans maintaining that what happened at Netroots was not a peaceful protests and kind of implying that the group was affiliated with the Stacey Abrams campaign.

Stacey Evans (04:45):

And I support the right of folks to peacefully protest. That wasn't what happened at Netroots. And if something like that had happened to my opponent, whether the group was affiliated, unaffiliated, slightly affiliated, not affiliated at all, I would have stood up and said that it was wrong.

Bridget Todd (05:02):

But remember, Anoa says she wasn't even a big Abram supporter at that time. Reporters just didn't really bother to talk to her or the group or find out about their motivations or message and why they interrupted the speech. They just kind of ran with whatever.

Bridget Todd (05:16):

And this was hugely instructive for Anoa.

Anoa Changa (05:18):

Now, that didn't translate the way we thought it would unfortunately, because no one in the media even cared to talk to us, to ask any of us about what happened. The way media reacted, especially local media here in Georgia ran with a particular narrative. I mean, you even had one article written that just because I knew someone who was on staff, a senior staff at Stacey's campaign.

Anoa Changa (05:42):

We had worked together previously, that because of that previous work relationship, they put me up to it without understanding that also when you're talking about black progressive political work, there are so few people in these spaces whether you're working in black orgs or white-led orgs. There's just not that many of us. We all end up either knowing each other directly or having people in common.

Anoa Changa (06:02):

So, that experience really taught me about the power and necessity for telling our own stories, making sure our voices were being heard.

Bridget Todd (06:11):

Today, Anoa is a pretty prolific independent journalist, who covers elections and local politics in Georgia. But instead of covering them like a horse race between two politicians, she centers the people impacted by the policies, people whose stories are often overlooked in favor of stories about political point scoring and posturing.

Bridget Todd (06:29):

And when it comes to the new voting legislation in Georgia, this also means pointing out a lot of lies and distortions.

Anoa Changa (06:35):

Well, we're looking at what's happening here in this law, like I was saying, yes, you have the lies from the different state representatives and state senators. You have the lies from the various election officials in varied capacities, but you have also our governor who was the former Secretary of State, who was known for his own shenanigans and foolishness. I mean, he's someone who actually lied ahead of his own election for governor.

Anoa Changa (07:03):

The weekend ahead of his election for governor, he lied and said that Stacey Abrams' campaign and democrats were trying to hack the state of Georgia, which was not true. An investigation later revealed that it was not true. And he has never been held accountable of that. So we know Brian Kemp lies on a regular.

Anoa Changa (07:19):

Brad Raffensperger also has fell into this hole of trying to piece his party and placating and twisting rhetoric. It's one thing to deal with and be able to point out a boldface lie, which we've seen in the testimony for Rudy Giuliani when he was in these various hearings in Michigan and here in Georgia, which we've seen unfortunately even in some of the testimony or some of the conversations happening in chambers in the passage of these bills by republican elected officials.

Anoa Changa (07:47):

And I often harped on the Secretary of State because everyone, in terms of national media, has lionized him and made him this very important figure. But at the same time, he gives credence and he finds ways to give legitimacy even though he has certified the election, even though he has acknowledged there's no widespread fraud, even though he acknowledged that this is the most secure election Georgia has ever had, all these other things.

Anoa Changa (08:13):

He will still say things that leave open the door that act like there is legitimate concern. I mean, just even the widespread reporting of fraud that was happening, it was an issue. At some point, it's not just simply that people don't know the process, they don't understand what's going on, it's people who are willfully obtuse.

Stacey Abrams (08:34):

As I have for more than 25 years, I will stand with my fellow Georgians in pursuit of fairness. You see, I did so as a college student, speaking in the shadow of Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr. I did so as democratic leader of the House of Representative and now, I will do so as a private citizen.

Bridget Todd (08:53):

In the 2018 gubernatorial election in Georgia, Stacey Abrams acknowledged that her opponent Brian Kemp would be the next governor of Georgia. I watched her speech from Atlanta where full disclosure I spent time in the state knocking doors for a campaign.

Bridget Todd (09:06):

During the election, Brian Kemp was Georgia's Secretary of State which meant that he was in charge of overseeing his own election. As Secretary of State, Kemp purged over 1.4 million inactive voters with low income and black Georgians being the most likely to have their registrations canceled.

Bridget Todd (09:23):

He also oversaw 53,000 voter registrations being put on hold, thanks to Georgia's exact match policy that flags registrations from voters with any kind of name discrepancy in state databases. So, if you registered for your first voters permit with your first and middle name, and then registered to vote with just your first name, you would be flagged.

Bridget Todd (09:43):

According to the Associated Press, nearly 70% of those voter registrations on hold were black voters, despite the state's population only being about 32% black. Now, because of all these, Abrams has said that 2018 gubernatorial election was stolen from the Georgia voters. After the race, she formed Fair Fight, an organization aimed at increasing voter turnout and ensuring that all votes are accurately counted.

Bridget Todd (10:06):

It was hugely successfully, and that work is often credited with securing the historic democratic wins in Georgia this past election. But here's where things get tricky, current Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger has compared what Abrams did to Trump's refusal to concede and pressuring officials to "find votes".

Bridget Todd (10:24):

In a recent USA Today's op-ed, he calls Trump's refusal to concede a page out of Stacey Abrams's playroom writing, "Abrams's refusal to concede at her dogmatic conviction that her election was stolen had done significant damage to trust and election integrity in Georgia."

Anoa Changa (10:40):

You have Raffensperger recently writing an op-ed in the USA Today and in part of the rhetoric from him and one of his staffers, Gabe Sterling, blaming Stacey Abrams and saying that her fight around the 2018 election ongoing lawsuit and the work of Fair Fight is the same as Donald Trump, of that false equivalency.

Anoa Changa (10:59):

And so, while that's not like this exactly the same as the outright boldface lying, saying like, "Oh, there was massive fraud happening in Fulton County," or whatever, at the same time, it still lends credence. It still gives legitimacy. And because they did have the one brave stand which really was a matter of, "I don't want to go to jail because that's hell illegal." I mean, let's just be real. Brad did everything else in his power. Brad didn't want to go to jail, because that's like telling someone to go find some votes. This ain't Scandal. That's jail, right? This is real life.

Anoa Changa (11:35):

But they will still craft narratives. There still were shiftings. They still give support. And then people who are like, "Oh, he's the Secretary of State. He's an elected official, he should get some deference." We'll cover a report what he says and does as if it's legitimate concern when in fact, it's really just also in the furtherance of the republican agenda which we have seen very clearly over this past year.

Anoa Changa (11:59):

But I mean, you and I, as folks who have been digging and focusing and looking at the scourge that is disinformation, have seen how deeply entrenched and wide-spread it has been particularly over the past several years and the very deep digital networks that already exist. And liberals in the left, and progressives are way behind the eighth ball. We react unfortunately to things where these people are very strategic.

Anoa Changa (12:27):

I mean, even I was reading an article this morning about one of the lawyers that was representing Trump with all that nonsense. She was actually one of the lawyers on that infamous phone call, is now heading up or at least co-leading one of the efforts to attack H.R. 1. And so, it's not just Georgia. You see this coordinated GOP attack on voting rights and really on democracy at this point.

Anoa Changa (12:53):

When we are having people lie and having those lies enshrined into law, and I mean, folks can say it happens in other capacities. But what's happening right now in terms of elections and election reform and how we are treating false allegations as valid considerations for passing law, it's a very scary precedent that's being set right now.

Bridget Todd (13:17):

I mean, it's so sad but that's really been legacy. After the election, I saw this poll from our street that said that two-thirds of republicans say the 2020 presidential election was invalid. And I think that's the point of this kind of disinformation, to make people really distrust our democratic process to the point where they just check out.

Anoa Changa (13:36):

Even in states where Trump won, we're still seeing that happening and unfold. In Iowa, we're still seeing a republican majority in Iowa even though Trump won that state.

Bridget Todd (13:51):

Let's take a quick break.

Bridget Todd (14:03):

And we're back.

Bridget Todd (14:05):

Democrats have their own legislations with expand voting rights called H.R. 1, which would expand access to voting by making election day a national holiday, offering online and automatic registration for anyone who wanted it and prohibit the kind of voter purges that we saw before the 2018 governor's race in Georgia from taking place less than six months before an election.

Bridget Todd (14:26):

Now, even though we're talking about voting rights, Anoa says it's about much more than that. She says, it's about a coordinated right wing attack on democracy like the waves of anti-trans and anti-abortion bills we've seen in some states. And any attack of identities is a direct attack on democracies.

Anoa Changa (14:44):

We're still seeing them push through these types of laws. We're seeing it in Mississippi and Missouri. We're still seeing it in areas that even like they're ceasing. This isn't just about like, "Oh, we're upset because this happened." This is a real opportunity point for them and this is like... I really do think that we ignore, we forget... Like there was so much focus on Trump and resistance and getting Trump out of office, that these state legislatures, these state capitals and governor seats, we've ignored the way in which that very and deeply entrenched rhetoric has permeated at the state level and is back and funded by some of the usual suspects that we've been talking about over the last however many decades, that fund and get behind these types of work.

Anoa Changa (15:31):

And what was really interesting, someone sent me an article recently. I talked about some of the major anti-abortion folks are also getting in the fight behind H.R. 1. We also see, I had an article a couple of weeks back in Truthout just talking about how like when we're talking about voting rights, and we're talking about what's happening in these fights, it literally isn't...

Anoa Changa (15:51):

When we're talking saving democracy, it's not just about voting rights. It's about all these other opportunities and entry points, and we're seeing some of the worst legislation that is really denying people's humanity and rights to exist when we see like the trans sports bills being passed in various places, when we see these various attacks on reproductive rights and freedom.

Anoa Changa (16:13):

And so, we really have this much broader attack happening on democracy and there are these various levels of lives. I mean, just thinking about the way the anti-abortion stuff happens, like so much of that is based on fear-mongering around mistruths and disinformation as well. So it permeates across so much.

Bridget Todd (16:34):

And conversations about disinformation, it's tempting to focus on foreign bad actors like Russia. But sometimes, that can lead us to overlook the massive coordination of domestic bad actors right here on our own country, and the powerful networks of online distortions they have at their disposal.

Anoa Changa (16:49):

We spent so much in 2017 post-election focusing on Russian interference, and Russian amplification of disinformation but never looking at the disinformation itself, the domestic disinformation. And I think now, and I really appreciate what you've been doing. So many people have been sounding the alarm on the danger of what is happening domestically, I think now maybe folks are starting to understand, but it's still being limited to Trump's big lie which Trump's big lie is really having a grip on our national politic right now.

Anoa Changa (17:23):

But part of the reason why it's able to do so is because these networks have been able to thrive and have existed for so long and they're so deep and intense. And so, it's a lot to peel back those layers. I don't think people understand about how people get targeted with disinformation, particularly when they come after black, Latino, and other folks of color through the various mediums.

Anoa Changa (17:48):

I know Latino folks have talked to me about the use of WhatsApp. I think some Asian folks too have talked about the use of WhatsApp groups which are very common with both communities in terms of how they share and disseminate information. So what you end up happening is you might have somebody's auntie or whoever, who sees this post or sees these things like, "Oh, my god, did you see this?" And then it spreads like wildfire. But that information is not actually accurate.

Anoa Changa (18:14):

So there are these other ways that is very insidious and infiltrating trusted spaces that somehow we have to figure out how do we help people become better sharers of information and really see through because there are some things that might kind of makes sense. That's what's really tricky too.

Anoa Changa (18:35):

People will say things that might make sense. Let's take for example, the voter ID stuff. In the Georgia law, there's a new voter ID requirement for folks who are voting absentee ballot. And it will be like, "Well, what's wrong? You need my ID for everything else. You need ID when you do this?" Yes, you need ID. You need to prove who you are when you register, but once you've registered, why do I have to keep showing you the picture itself? You need ID when you go here. You need ID...

Anoa Changa (19:05):

So people will do this thing, they're like, "Well, that makes sense." But the rhetoric, the rationalization has to do with fraud when the fraud has never been proven to be an actual issue. I remember doing some research during the election in Alabama when Alabama was adapting its voting ID law, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund looked back 12 years prior to when they're trying to reenact the law trying to see how many fraud cases they were. There was only one or two in a 12-year period.

Anoa Changa (19:36):

And so, they only used the presence of one or two and they'll be like, "Well, see? There's an issue because this one or two happened." Or someone made a comment about people changing ballots, but it was a republican postal man in West Virginia that was rechanging people's request ballots, but it was caught.

Anoa Changa (19:54):

That's the other thing. The very rare instances where things happened, the people doing it are caught almost right now, because of the mechanisms already built into the system. So media frustrates me too because how they report these things as if there are ballot considerations on all sides, when really the only side we need to be thinking about is democracy and what does it mean to uphold and protect democracy and how could you ever justify and [inaudible 00:20:22] to say you're protecting democracy by keeping people out.

Bridget Todd (20:26):

Yeah, I mean, you can't. In a democracy, you want to expand voting access. You want to make it easier and get rid of barriers that people have to vote, not enact more. And it was really disingenuous to see a statement today, I think from Kemp, who was like, "Oh, we're widening the ability for people to vote. We're expanding it." And it's just a lie.

Bridget Todd (20:50):

I mean, there is just not a way that you can look at that and see the kinds of barriers that this legislation puts in place, and try with a straight face to say that you're actually trying to make it easier for people to vote. If that's the case, why are you threatening Souls to the Polls? Why have you made it so ... to make it harder for people to give water to folks standing in long lines?

Bridget Todd (21:11):

Part of it to me is shocking how they can seize on something that might have a nugget of truth to try to paint a wider portrait of what's happening. To your point earlier about the networks and how coordinated this is, before you and I got on this call, I was just doing a little search about what am I seeing in republican or right wing space? What's the conversation online?

Bridget Todd (21:35):

And what you said about, "Oh, you need an ID to go buy liquor. You need to do XYZ." Why is it bad to have to need an ID to vote? It was interesting to me that in some large Facebook groups that are not even necessarily explicitly political. I saw a bunch of memes this morning kind of making that point. And they make the point in a way that seems to make sense. You're like, "Okay, I get the point that's being made, and it seems noncontroversial."

Bridget Todd (22:05):

But when you think about it, you're like, "Oh, wait. In context, that's actually really messed up." And then it's just interesting to me how they're these networks online that are ready to echo and amplify the distortions of folks on the right about voting and disseminate them into groups of people who might not even be necessarily primed to be looking at politically charged content.

Anoa Changa (22:30):

But this is exactly how we saw the [inaudible 00:22:32], and the Jay racist insurrection. These people have been primed that way. This is why you have so many "normal mild-mannered folks". They've been all wrapped up in the QAnon and whatever because, again, this stuff is overlooked. It's not seen as important to engage with.

Anoa Changa (22:50):

I just remember several years ago, just nonsense that would happen on Twitter. And then people would be like, "Why do you even waste time debunking that? What's the point?" I've learned there are probably more effective ways to do things than having one-on-one arguments with dumb folks on Twitter but at the same time, when you have people with large platforms who are engaging in some of these both sides or these red herrings and stuff, it is dangerous because they are then informing and engaging so many other people.

Anoa Changa (23:18):

But with these various groups, I mean I've seen people talking about like the yoga groups, some of them are even more like, this basic spiritual type places that unfortunately ended up being places where there was a lot of widespread COVID-19 misinformation being spread as well. And not necessarily because the people sharing it themselves are malicious in trying to fool people, some of it made sense to people. But whoever is putting it out there and creating it, knowing that people are going to pick it up.

Anoa Changa (23:48):

I think it was earlier this year, there's actually someone being charged by the FBI which I don't really know how I feel about this. But at the same time, it is a very interesting conversation to have. There's someone being charged by the FBI and part of it was because they were disseminating misleading information targeting predominantly black and I think voters of color. But they were sending out what made it seemed like you could vote by using a text code if you couldn't get to the polls.

Anoa Changa (24:14):

And think about it, people were doing innovative things to help people vote in the middle of a pandemic. So, if you're someone who's not very politically savvy, who doesn't know that you can't vote by text or by tweeting at someone, to me you must be like, "Duh, of course you can't do that." But to somebody who doesn't know any better, who actually thinks that that could be a real legitimate option in their way of also engaging the process in the middle of a pandemic, that's kind of fucked up.

Anoa Changa (24:39):

And so, this person I guess, got investigated and the other folks in this group chat, they were in also got investigated, but they literally had a chat. They were surveilling these multiple different groups in different spaces and coordinating, releasing these memes and stuff. And so, I mean that type of stuff has been happening. And so, to my point about the Russia stuff, what was happening with the Russia stuff and its place in the conversation, it really overshadowed the mass volume of what was happening domestically. And so, people had years now unchecked to perfect that domestic system. And we're really seeing it rear its head in coordination with just the regular conservative, legislative organizing that already happens.

Anoa Changa (25:29):

People used to talk about, you would see the ALEC bills, that basically was the same boilerplate language in multiple states across the country. There are a little bit more savvy now because we're seeing similar things happening across the country, and it's clearly not a good way incidents.

Bridget Todd (25:44):

Can you tell us some of what's in this law?

Anoa Changa (25:46):

Some of the most insidious parts of the law here in Georgia, it removes the Secretary of State as the head of the state board of elections. State board of elections is a five person body. The general assembly appoints two of those people, the general assembly will now appoint a majority three of the five, with the removal of the Secretary of State as the chair. Our Republican controlled legislature will now in effect control the state election board, which the state election board sits down election, purview regulations for the entire state, which is how we select our members of our general assembly.

Anoa Changa (26:22):

There's a lawyer here that I follow and really looks to for guidance, Sara Tindall Ghazal, and she was just pointing out in one of the hearings, how ridiculous it is. One of the bill's proponents, Barry Fleming was like, "Well, I mean, the governor appoints the entire board in the regions. The governor points the transportation board." And she's just like, "Okay, I guess I got to explain this to you, but that's fine, the governor point appoints those bodies, but you all appointing the people who set the rules for how you all hold office isn't really... You're appointing your own referees and then we're expecting them to hold you accountable." It's just a wild proposition.

Bridget Todd (27:05):

Here's how one voter described her voting experience in Georgia.

Speaker 6 (27:08):

I don't feel like this is happening at all polls. I'm in a 30331 zip code. And I feel like most of the problems that occurred, and this is what we were told that certain polling locations had problems. And I do believe it's... I think it's targeted.

Anoa Changa (27:25):

Another thing they did that directly targets Fulton County in particular, is forbidding the use of mobile vans for voting [inaudible 00:27:32]. This was all something that was done in Harris County, in Texas. And so, that helps because Fulton County, Gwinnett County, the Metro Atlanta counties in particular are often burdened with a very long lines. And so, mobile voting was something that was implemented to help alleviate some of that. So it was basically setting up a mobile polling site. So that helped alleviate some of that. So when I talk about, "Oh, we're making it easier." How are you making it easier when you're restricting the time period within which people have to request an absentee ballot and return it, because if you want really wants to make it easier, you could have adopted the policy that several states have, where you return the absentee ballot, as long as it's postmarked on election day or the day before election day, as long as it's received in a particular time period, it would still count. They could have went that route. So there are things that they could have done, but they chose more restrictive means.

Bridget Todd (28:22):

Now, a lot of the headlines about this bill have pointed out that it puts new restrictions on how volunteers can do things like give water or snacks or a chair to people waiting in long lines to vote, but it's even more worrisome than it sounds.

Anoa Changa (28:34):

So for folks who might not be familiar, line warming is, you keeping the line where we keep people comfortable who are standing in line. I remember in 2018, new Georgia project in some of their electric protection folks, they literally sits a mariachi band to one line to keep people entertained because they were waiting in line so long. And so, because we have these long lines, because depending on the weather, if it's in spring, because we have very warm spring time here in Georgia, or if it's very cold for whatever reason or raining and people have handed out ponchos, people have handed out hand warmers, food, snacks. I mean, you have pieces of the polls, you have the chef where the polls with chef Jose Andres started the chef to the polls this past cycle too.

Anoa Changa (29:18):

So you have these other things that people are doing, and they have tried compare it to partisan electioneering in the past. And you even had Brad Raffensperger telling media that it was in fact illegal and a felony. So before the state actually made it illegal, you had the Secretary of State telling people that it was illegal and you had people being harassed accordingly because of his misinterpretation misstatements of law. So now that it is illegal to be within 150 feet, that's to say, why that hundred [inaudible 00:29:47], why I keep harking on that, is because that is the same distance that if you're representing a party or a candidate, you have to be away. So they have compared nonpartisan activity to partisan activity. And that's a very real attack on black and brown and other organizers of color who have been trying to help alleviate what we see.

Anoa Changa (30:08):

We don't want people to be discouraged. So, I will also note that because there's not anything clear cut in law and like voting rights law period, the way people have tried to just protect themselves and make sure they don't end up being accused of violating any type of federal laws, because it has been a law, I think since the 40's that you can not give anyone something of value for their vote. And so, unfortunately, because of the discretion involved in our interpreting a Secretary of State like Brad Raffensperger could interpret that as giving something to someone of value because they're in line to vote, which it's like, whatever, it's a stretch, but whatever.

Anoa Changa (30:50):

So how a lot of folks have dealt with that is like 81 in the vicinity, whether it's the poll workers, if you're at someplace that has security, if there are other people passing through the general community, anyone can get anything we're giving out no matter what. It's a service. When I got some quotes when I was writing the article from the piece of the poll folks, one of the things they said was, "We see this as a way of incentivizing civic engagement in the general community. So we'll provide it to anyone." And I know that several lawyers have advised people that that was the best way to handle it as well. But now it doesn't matter who you're giving it to regardless, just the very act of being close to the poll location they have now decided to criminalize.

Anoa Changa (31:29):

And that is a very clear attack on a very real way at something that is very commonly known to be seen as an added value and benefit to communities. And so, we're seeing there's a very real attack, not just simply on democracy, but on our participation as people of color who are exercising, leveraging that power. A lot of folks are comparing this to Jim Crow, and I'd really be interested in talking to some historians just to learn more about that post, that early... the pre 50, 60 civil rights era. The late 1800s through the 1940s, 1950s, because it seems like in some ways we're really in that period, post reconstruction, where we saw very blatant active attempts to strip a black political power from communities.

Bridget Todd (32:15):

This attempt to strip black communities of power via curbing access to is nothing new. After the civil war, during the reconstruction, black folks were attacked by racist poll taxes and literacy tests and other barriers to make it harder for us to vote. According to the Brennan Center, even though these laws are over a century old, as recently as 2012, 46 states allowed for voter challenges, laws that allowed any private citizen to challenge the eligibility of prospective voters on or before election day. Now, these kinds of barriers to voting have never gone down without a fight. Organizations like Black Voters Matter led by Cliff Albright, have already challenged George's new law on the grounds that it will unfairly hurt black and brown voters.

Anoa Changa (32:59):

So it's going to be interesting about how some of this stuff even stands up in court, New Georgia Project, Black Voters Matter fund and [Rise 00:33:06] all filed... they filed a joint suit, the same night that Kim signed the bill. So it's going to be interesting to see how that moves forward and unfolds. But the voter challenges... So basically... And this is something that used to happen in the old days too. You could just go in or really white people could just go in and be like, "No, that person can't vote," for whatever reason or whatever. And you would literally have to have a white person, someone come vouch for you. And so, it's something very similar. They can come in and just challenge anyone for any reason. And that is very intimidating. It's very stressful. That is something that actually is very insidious.

Bridget Todd (33:44):

It also feels like an attack on some aspects of the black way of life. I know I have older women in my life who I call auntie and drop off mail and groceries and prescriptions for, who are not actually my blood relatives. And I wouldn't be able to touch their ballots.

Anoa Changa (34:01):

You can't have other people collecting your ballots for you. And again, that might even sound logical to people, but you have some folks... What about people who can't get around and get out? We all know folks... If I know people in my general life, unless I'm directly related in a household with them, I can't touch their ballot for them. But if they don't have anyone... And a lot of us live in families and community like that, where we have miss so-and-so who, no, I'm technically not related to her, but she's still my auntie or she's still in my grandma or whatever. And it's not anything nefarious.

Bridget Todd (34:37):

[inaudible 00:34:37]. The root of this is so obvious. It's racist.

Anoa Changa (34:41):

The root of it all is they are afraid that they won't win elections unless they do this. It's not like, "Hi, I should adopt better policies." Or maybe I need to not be so extremist in our positions. It's like, "No, we just need to do whatever we can to retain and maintain power and make sure them darkies don't." Because that's really what it is.

Bridget Todd (35:03):

That's really what it is. [crosstalk 00:35:04]. We talk about it, but it's like, you and I both know what's up. It's so clear. No one wants to come out and say it. They don't say it. They dance around it, but it's clear. That's what's happening. Anybody can see it.

Bridget Todd (35:21):

More after a quick break.

Bridget Todd (35:33):

Let's get right back into it. Kemp, flanked by a bunch of white male, Georgia state legislators, signed the law under a painting of a slave plantation.

Anoa Changa (35:44):

And folks are pointing to Kemp signing that bill under a picture of, not just any plantation. What someone... several folks have just pierced out the history of the plantation that's depicted a very brutal atrocious that held I think upwards of a hundred slaves, that with... I mean, also you have him flanked by six white men, which I believe [inaudible 00:36:13] a quick glance. And that's like six people who are above house incident leadership. I mean, the fact that the leadership of our government is all white men in a rapidly diversifying state like Georgia is quite telling. I mean, that's the other thing. There is this real fear that they are losing power and that's at the heart of it, but we know what happens when white fear controls policy.

Anoa Changa (36:39):

We've seen it. We've seen folks can act like, "Oh, the KKK or white supremacy is just some white [inaudible 00:36:46], that's some extreme outside thing. But unfortunately, a lot of those same tenants, a lot of those same attitudes influence when we're looking at the way in which people are charged with various crimes, when we're looking at the decisions that are being made, when we're looking at the way in which our children are treated in public schools. We see that very deep rooted Beecher of white supremacy across so many facets of society. So you can't just... It's not enough to just say this is Trump's big lie, it's so much more than that happening. And I'm just really excited for the work that you're doing and the conversations you've been having around disinformation, because we really need to understand how these systems are operating and what role do we all have to play.

Anoa Changa (37:30):

And we really should take that role seriously. I really do believe that we all have a role to play in fighting disinformation. It doesn't matter if you are aligned ideologically, very conservative, if you're someone who believes in more moderate or conservative values, you should want people telling the truth. You should want facts. You should not want to exist with people distorting information and blatantly lying. It's a wild time we're in.

Bridget Todd (37:56):

It's a wild time.

Anoa Changa (37:56):

This is a wild time.

Bridget Todd (37:58):

It's a wild time. I guess that's one of my last questions for you. What do you think is next for the state of voting in Georgia? What's next? Where do we go from here?

Anoa Changa (38:08):

We keep doing what we've been doing. I keep reporting what I've been reporting. I'm sure organizers... Like I just finished interviewing Cliff Albright and some other folks, Simone Bell is a former state rep. And we were just talking about, what's next? In conversations with folks, it was just like, so now what... And so, folks are working through, what does it look like possibly as economic boycott strategy or continuing the corporate accountability strategy as a pressure point to paraphrase Cliff. Just thinking about like the Georgia law has been passed, it's now... For that specifically, that's up to the lawsuit, the legal strategy.

Anoa Changa (38:52):

There's always still the organizing strategy and working within the confines of the new limitations that exist. We see folks continuing to strategize, organize and just getting more people in the process, but that corporate accountability strategy... Folks are all hyped up about boycotting Georgia. And I personally tend to object to boycotts unless they are called directly by people themselves.

Bridget Todd (39:13):

As soon as the legislation was signed into law, people on social media began calling for boycotts of Georgia based corporations like Delta Airlines and Coca-Cola, until they came out against the law. Now, boycotts like these have been effective in the past. In the 80's, organizers called for a boycott of Coca-Cola and other us companies, if they didn't divest from South Africa to help end apartheid. But the difference is those boycotts were led by local folks on the ground, not outsiders on Twitter. [inaudible 00:39:40] thinks any calls for boycotts should be led by organizers in Georgia, not people who don't live there.

Anoa Changa (39:45):

But also with the boycott, I had folks like, well, they did it in the 80's with Coca-Cola. That was a part of a very strategic effort around divestment from South Africa. And I do remember as a kid, we did not drink Coca-Cola or wear Reeboks because of divestment. That's the only thing I really remember being a young child in the 80's. That, and then by the early 90's, a different world episode where one of the characters had to give up or chose to give up a scholarship because the company had not divested from South Africa, economic accountability, economic corporate boycotts, that stuff can work, but it's strategic and has to be led by impacted people who are very clear on what the goals are.

Anoa Changa (40:29):

I think Senator Warnock actually said this really well in an interview recently. They're so busy asking Democrats about why the filibuster, the filibuster, it's like, "Why aren't you asking Republicans about why they're not protecting voting rights?" Why they don't care. I think that's what, but where we all go. I think we need to have a very clear commitment and understanding that democracy is not just some staggering thing that just exists. It is really an active process that requires us to play a very clear, consistent role. So whether that's just being involved in... Even if it's being involved in your kids, if there's like a local school council or something for your district or your school, or if it's when you can have the time. Because I also... I mean, I've been a single mom my entire adult life. I had my daughter when I was 20. Almost my entire adult life. I'm not going to discount the years.

Anoa Changa (41:21):

Their dad wasn't around, but I... So I get being busy. I get having multiple competing things. I've taken care of other people in addition to my kids. So I understand having other things pressing on us, but we can still find a way to write off that letter to... Now with the technology it's so easy. You can automatically send out the texts to do stuff. The auto-populate, the emails. I mean, we can follow and support the work of black and other organizers of color, not just here in Georgia, because yes, they're amazing people in Georgia, but you know what? There are awesome folks throwing down all over the South and really all over the country.

Anoa Changa (42:02):

I think between Georgia and the Midwest, not to exclude anyone else, the South and the Midwest, I've met some of the most prolific organizers, really grinding and working at multiple intersections of crisis right now, because we'd still do... We're still in the middle of a pandemic and we have the democracy issues. And then just the regular issue based work that people are doing.

Anoa Changa (42:22):

So I think about folks like Mississippi votes, who the People's Advocacy Institute led by Rukia Lumumba and Mississippi votes has recommitted. I think about work over in Louisiana. I mean, up in Wisconsin, you have LIT, Leaders Igniting Transformation and BlOC, Black Leaders Organizing Communities. And those are both organizations that I've worked around multiple issues, as well as elections and civic engagement while at the same time, holding space for community in the middle of a pandemic. And so, these types of groups exist all over. Some of them may be smaller, and may not be as well funded. And that's definitely where you like your support... I mean, we act like donations don't matter, but financial freedom writers are thing in my opinion. It's definitely necessary. Not all of us can get there and be there physically in person. Not everybody has to be on the front line.

Anoa Changa (43:20):

That's one things I appreciate about the pandemic too I think. That folks have learned there are different ways that you can contribute and being literally on the front line is not the only thing of value you can do. Can you feed some folks every once in a while? That's also really valuable. I mean, I just think as we're wrapping up, and just thinking about where to go next, also sharing good information, sharing podcasts, and your shared articles, like the ones I write, that goes a long way because we don't necessarily have the same distribution networks that the other side does. And so, we need to get our information out there. I'll just share a real quick personal story.

Anoa Changa (43:55):

I've had these conversations with my mother about sharing bad information about COVID whether the vaccine or whatever, and it's the same thing. They target black folks. It sounds kind of right. It makes kind of sense. They get you hooked in. But I had a walk through with my mom. I had to point her to black doctors, she should be following. And one thing she said, well, she goes, "[inaudible 00:44:17] such good information, why isn't there information to be shared everywhere?" I said, "Unfortunately, because of the way these algorithms work, the way the sharing systems work." She was like, "Oh, well." So taking the time to just talk to our folks, that's super critical.

Bridget Todd (44:32):

A lot of people have said the black vote saved us from Trump. Now it's time for all of us to help protect it. If you're fired up and ready to get involved, check out the New Georgia Project, a group that works to protect voting access in Georgia, at thenewgeorgiaproject.org. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please help us grow by subscribing. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say, "Hi." We'd love to hear from you at hello@tangoti.com. DisInformed is brought to you by There Are No Girls On The Internet. It's a production of iHeartMedia and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our supervising producer and engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. For more great podcasts, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.